Financial Stress and the Boiling Frog: Are You Reacting Instead of Thinking?

Hello, friends. Welcome to the Transforming Stress Dr Ash podcast. And today we are going to talk about financial stress. As you know, financial stress is one of the top most stressors along with personal health relationships and work. Today we have got an expert, Mr. Taimur Malik, who is a personal finance strategist and author of the best selling book Rethink Money, Reclaim Your Life. He's also a chartered MCSI. Mr. Malik brings a unique blend of the Western tools and the Eastern wisdom. Please help me welcome Taimur on the show.

Hello, Taimur. Dr Ash, thank you very much for having me. And it's my pleasure that I am I am with you. I've been I know you for a while. I've been following your work on transforming stress with Dr Ash and what a wonderful job you are doing because more people know that stress is out there, but actually talking about it and how to manage your stress is something different. And hearing it from someone who actually is a physician and doctor who understand the environment we live in and we understand how our body works as well and how the stress plays a huge role in terms of how we make our decisions, including financial decisions. So really doing a wonderful work and congratulations on doing something so meaningful. And as I have learned that people across multiple countries are now listening to your podcast and benefiting from it. So thanks for having me.

Thank you, Daimut. Thank you for your kind words. And you very correctly said that stress can affect how we think, and we will discuss this more in details that how being in continuous stress affects our decision making. I would love to start Tamur about your journey which brought you to where you are just now, and also including writing the bestseller book to Rethink Money, Reclaim Your Life, which is a great book. I've read it cover to cover, and it is giving such solid financial wisdom. So, first of all, congratulations to you. Thank you very much, Dr Ash. And I would love to know about your journey.

Yeah, so wonderful question, and whenever I ask about this question, it really takes me back to the time. You know, when we are doing the work on a day-to-day basis, we don't realize that how far we have come into life. So that takes me back nearly 25 years into my life when I was a student and I was planning my future, okay. At that time in the country I came from, really the concept of good life was to get a good degree and that is give you a gateway to have a good job opportunities, which means promise for a good life. So, with that dream and especially with the western dream, that it gives good quality of life compared to eastern life. with that mind, I came here nearly 22, 3 years ago as a student. and I came here with very little money in today's world, which is 500 pounds. Having said that, that 500 pound was my life savings, built up over 26 years of my life and my as help from my parents as well at that stage. So, although it seems very insignificant, but that was output from the previous life, and I have everything with me at that point. However, being coming to a Western country like UK, it was like you are switching between using a Windows laptop to a Mac MacBook, right? And you have to really go through the learning process, okay, how MacBook works and what sort of functions are, what our short keys are for that. So same is same was for me coming to this country with no connections, no family here, not knowing what future is gonna hold for me, but I have said goodbye to previous life. and then I started studying in the University of London with these three ambitions and dreams to have a good degree leading to some good job here, and then a good life. And I was very fortunate actually that within four years from arriving in UK, here I was with really a postgraduate degree. I have landed a job in world largest investment manager in the in the in the world, and then from there on I was quickly able to get my first home as well, and got married. So life was wonderful as I thought about a Western dream. So in this journey, one of the fundamental thing that was shifting within me is growing up in eastern culture, or anyone who is in the developing country know that how debts are treated, or what sort of stories we hear about debts it can destroy. More stories are about destroying people's lives than actually making it. So I have that mindset, and then coming to this country, how I'm gonna fund 15,000 pounds or 16,000 pounds degree, I have no clue. But I was very fortunate that I had a personal bank account and then I was speaking to them. I am looking to study. Is there a way you can support my studies? So luckily they gave me a student loan at that stage, and this was my introduction to good side of debt, which was challenging my fundamental beliefs I carry about debts, that is bad, right? However, the same debt has enabled me to get one step closer to my dream of acquiring Western education and start my life. So I that's a brief introduction about where I was and fast forward today. I'm very proud of the book, Rethink Money Reclaim of Reclaim Your Life, which is kind of as you have shared as well, is a blend of bringing the good psychological concepts and mindset I brought from Eastern culture, and then able to see the great financial tools available to all of us in Western societies or in modern day like pension or property or stock market investment, how to combine both things to create a fulfilling life where you have choice, you have time freedom, and you have manageable financial stress.

Thank you, thank you for sharing that, Aimur. Thank you so much. I remember reading in your book about a personal episode when you were in the hospital and you were thinking how everything turned upside down for you. So if it is not too personal, and if you would like to share that part of your journey with the listeners, that would be really helpful because I find that for many people there is not enough backup of in life. You know, we are just having following the dream, and when things don't go in the right way, that suddenly we are shocked.

Yeah, no, that's definitely a very personal and close to my heart, and anyone who has been through challenging times of their life will resonate it with that kind of struggle. So the part of my introduction I have told you is about coming as a common guy with no connections and no faresight about future and achieving a wonderful life here, the Western dream that many of us aspire to achieve. And I have done in four years. it was wonderful, and I was at the top of my game. And one spring evening, and I was sitting and sipping the cup of coffee in the morning, and then thinking, wow, well, I have made it, how far I have come, achieving my dream, and it was wonderful, wonderful feeling having my own place to live with my family, having a brand new car as well at that stage, and completing degree. So, what I my parents are proud of me sharing the story about okay, how well their son has made into in the UK and doing living and great life, so all was wonderful, and then within a few days from having that moment of completeness that I have done it and I have touched the taste of success. one morning I was called into HR office, and this is in 2010, when the global financial crisis were going on in 2008 and onward. And the HR director said, Tamur, I'm very sorry to say, but you have no longer job in this company because, as you know, the financial crisis companies restructuring. So that was very shocking to hear, and within a day I saw the whole Western dream life was collapsing in my head. And while I was trying to figure out within a few days from that, I have developed a high stress spinal injury that was then affected. And what happened is one morning I couldn't I woke up and I couldn't move from the bed, and moving from the bed, just trying to sit, is like a shock wave of electric shockwave of thousand watts going through my body, so and that was very strange feeling. And after making some failed attempt, I have realized that I can't move, so I had to call NHS and then I told them what happened, and then ambulance came and I was transferred to hospital where I went through for diagnosis. fast forward a few days they said you have spinal injury, and we are not sure if you are gonna be able to walk again or not. So I was just trying to hold on to the job loss part, which was first time experience. And here I am learning that I may be living like a disabled person going forward. So for that time, I was incomplete as the bottom of bottom of my life. I was complete in darkness, and I don't know what to think ahead of it because my brain was not accepting it. Being at the high level of success really fell flat on my face from there on. Fast forward from that, gradually the rehab was going on, and I was in hospital. Eventually, just like any shock and difficult stage in your life, generally by while going thinking through it and trying to read some books because I thought okay, I can't do anything other than that. So, reading books, watching YouTube, I came to realization on the positive side of life that I'm still alive, I still have a lovely family. And if it has if this has been the worst thing, it's actually not that bad. I'm still here, and I am in the best hands thanks to National Health Service in UK, in hospital, Edinburgh. So, and from that moment, because I was in a fear state, and from that realization, my mind started coming down to actually seeing the start positive side of the life. And what it did is it clarified my mind to really have a thinking space. Okay, what I'm gonna do from here on. So I accepted one thing that if I'm gonna be disabled and I'm still alive, I should be able to do something good with my life. I have made it so far. And secondly, with the I have realized that the Western Dean I have dream I have built, I have built over more than 150,000 pounds of debts, which was my home loan, which was a car loan, student loan, refurbing house as well. And I didn't realize because I was in that dopamine phase where I was getting the taste of success, and I've I haven't really understood fully the concept of debt going from one extreme to disliking debts to acquiring so many debts in such a short period. And that realization really opened up the question in my mind okay, where I have missed the point. So this was a high stressful time going through the darkest period, and then realizing okay, I still I'm still alive, I still have a family and friends, and it's if this is the worst, then it's not too bad. And from there on I made some decisions that with that mind accepting it, becoming clear to say, okay, first of all, I am not going to work that hard as I learned there. I was working 70 hours a week. That has created a lot of stress on mind and also body, and that was partly responsible for the spinal injury, the stress related. And secondly, I decided that I need to figure out how I cannot rely on one source of income going forward. If it happens, then I'm not affected. so one buffet said famously that figure out a way to make money while you're sleeping. That I was learning at that time. Or if you don't figure it out, then you're gonna be working until last breath. So that was a relevation for me, what exactly that meant earning money while sleeping. So that was the second decision I made at that time. I'm gonna try to develop passive sources of income. I'm not going to work that hard, and actually, I gonna increase or I'm gonna work less hours gradually. Right? So these were the three determinations, three promises I made to myself from that experience of going through extreme stress, not knowing where to head. and now reflecting back, I think it was a good thing happened in hindsight. It has really reset my mindset about the opportunities the new life offers and the risk it carries and how to balance between those.

So you changed your mindset. That one you mentioned that you're not going to work that hard. Number two, you mentioned that you're going to earn money whilst you sleep.

And the third was so the third was that I so first was that I am going to make money while I'm sleeping. Secondly, I am not going to work that hard, and thirdly, I'm gonna create time freedom gradually. So I'm reducing my work over the time. So, how I can do that so I can spend more time with my young son at that time, who I have ignored while working in the world largest investment management company because I was working hard. I thought I'm doing the right thing for my family, but actually not, I was missing out spending time, weekends, evenings with my son and family. So three things.

So, did you have to change and work on a lot of your belief systems as well whilst you were having this recalibration around money?

Yeah, very good question, Dr Ash. yes, I have to, and I already shared one belief that was change in my head going from thinking that debts are bad to completely start building a life on debts. So that's a 360-degree change from not liking something and adapting fully to that without understanding the underlying risks for that, and coming to realization actually, the both situations are neither good nor bad. Everyone, including myself, we have to assess what is our appetite for, for example, taking risk or taking debts, and how much debt we can take on which we can manage. And that was the one belief shifted in mind through this experience, mindset shift, is obviously ideally there should be no debts in our life. So I have no consumer loans at this stage, but I have a huge amount of debts, which is like good debts, good debts versus bad debts. Good debts mean any debt that help you to generate more income or cash flow, and bad debts are taking money out of your pocket. That was one belief shifting. Secondly, while working in my investment management job, and before, one of my beliefs was I have completed my education and I know how life works. And going through that shocking experience really opened my mind that how little I knew. So these were two concepts, and thirdly, I have never thought how someone can earn while sleeping and create a time freedom. As I was reading and learning through that phase, and I and I start learning about the possibilities, how this can happen, and start reading about people who have achieved it. So, yes, the whole story starts with shifting the beliefs we carry, and the second chapter of my book is all about it. The money script, the belief system we carry. And throughout our life, we have to be in a or I call myself as a student of life. We need to continue to evolve because our body is changing, our needs are changing. So our mindset beliefs are like software, like we have a mobile phone. Every so often there is a new version of the mobile phone software comes in and it pops up on your screen. Say, upgrade it because we have fixed this, this, this security issues, and we have new features available. And if we don't do that, our phone becomes vulnerable to hacking or phishing attacks, and we are missing out on any new features coming. For example, now until three, four years back, AI was just a concept in our life. Okay, there is something, but in the last four years, we have seen how quickly it has entered in our life to transform, and anyone who is not using one another way and learning about it mean that they are leaving behind in whatever area of work they are in because it's such a great productive tool as well. But like anything in life, you have to learn pros and cons of AI. So, yes, these are the concepts I and believes change in my mind that I need to keep learning and I need to keep working on finding out how to make money while I'm sleeping, and in the back end, how to keep myself peaceful and avoid stress.

Thank you, Tamur. I really like what you said about learning to use debt and understanding what is good debt and what is bad debt. What we are also seeing that you know, one of the changes you realize that people that one of the changes you made that you're not going to work very hard, like you are working 70 hours a week. We see that sometimes people work harder and harder. They make even more and more money, still they are always financially stressed, and that stress then affects all the other areas of the life. And as I told as I have shared in my book and the boiling frog, that when you are in a boiling frog state, a stress state, and you are not operating from your higher centers, you are in a reactive phase, and same thing in reactive spending. So lifestyle inflation and excessive spending I'm sure the listeners will really benefit from this wisdom because it's a such a common landscape. And I would love to hear from you what is your experience and philosophy to help people deal with this.

Yes, Drakash, you have mentioned very rightly that it's when we are in when we are finally feel that we are making ahead in life and we are earning more money and including rich people or becoming more prosperous, because anyone as for as far as I have seen, anyone living in UK earning average income, let's say pick up 35,000 pounds a year, they are already have the financial wealth more than 80% of the world, of the world, and yet investment societies and in UK as well, people feel stressful. How ironic is that, and including myself as well. How come you are earning more than 80% of the world population and yet feel stress and fear about not able to make your day-to-day life and putting bread on the table? And you have rightly, very rightly mentioned about one of the issues is lifestyle inflation. What happened is I have realized as well that once we are in our professional life, somehow we start realizing that okay, we have made it, and we don't have to really learn from that point onward. And all the challenges or all the things coming in life after that, we don't know how to deal with it other than what society is teaching us, or the media or social media. And what happens is whatever challenges we are going through, whether we are acquiring our first home or our kids going to education, or we wanted to have a holiday somewhere, or other dreams we might have. When we turn to social media, when we turn to other forms of places where we get educate ourselves on a daily basis, the because we live in a consumer society and whole economy works by people consuming products and consuming services, the whole education is around consuming rather than finding the balance in your own situation. So everywhere you go, the way to really have a good life is to have more. So everyone has a dream. For example, if someone has a pay raise or get a bonus or gets a profit, before the money comes into our account, we already have a plan to spend it or may already have spent it because you will see advertisement for a new car, new furniture, new house, who will say no down payment for three months or six months. So you are already lure into upgrading your lifestyle, which everyone wants because we are being educated that by upgrading our lifestyle we can we can we can finally be happy, right? And that is the trap we are into because we live in a consumer society, and all we are being educated is how to consume more and more, and it never finishes. The other side of example is if money more money after a certain extent, as per research, after a certain level of income, let's say$70,000 or in UK if it's a 50,000 pounds, after that the impact on our well-being and happiness is diminishing of earning more money, right? If money has been able to solve all our problems, there are very famous studies on people winning lottery, right? And majority of people within a few years lose all the money, even they win millions. It's very strange thing to learn about it, and there are stories of individuals who are happy to share, it's available on the internet as well, and you can see actually by having more money and listening to those people because they were not, they have certainly something they don't know how to manage, and the only thing they knew about money was is to spend or consume. So they end up in the same situation again in a few years' time, no matter how much money it is. So that is a very important research that tells us that having more money above a certain limit is actually not gonna make us happy.

So, is that reasonable to say that people who earned like a lottery had got a lot of money, but they never changed their mindset. And also the lifestyle inflation, those two factors brought them where they were very, very soon.

Yes, absolutely. and it doesn't mean that money is evil, or as you have rightly said, Dr Ash, that when we get a new phone or new car, or let's say if someone I like a racing car, but I don't know how to drive it, I first have to learn to drive it, or at least some instructor to sit beside me and tell me how to handle a Ferrari or other racing cars. Without that, I'm gonna put myself into risk, not only risking my life, but also damaging the racing car because I have never learned to do that. And same is with money. inheritantly, we want more money, but when more money comes in, we manage it with the same mindset we had before, which is keeping us low, which is about consuming. So, consumer mindset versus an investor mindset is where the difference is, and this is something I learned as well hard way, and this is where the solution is. for example, I know a handyman who regularly helps me on different house maintenance things, and he told me that during the winter he works in IKEA over the weekend and during weekdays he does handyman work. And when the summer comes, he likes carvan and traveling, so he takes his family, kids in carvan and go on being on holiday for four months a year. And when I first heard, I didn't believe it, but gradually when I was spear have spoken with him over time, I have I become jealous of him. Like I was so successful and feeling like what I call a golden cage prisoner of this lifestyle, and where is this guy living a very simple life, has his own home, family. He every year he goes out for holidays for four months. How ironic is that? So that was another relivation for me to know actually, money is not the only thing to enjoy life, and not only and also not all not something that can help to manage stress. You need something more than that.

So you mentioned earlier about you mentioned earlier about the consumer mindset versus the investor mindset.

Yeah.

So how can how can people shift from the consumer mindset to the investor mindset?

Excellent question. let's take an example. Starbucks. Right? we are in UK or West. anyone listening outside the Europe or where the brand is different, not Starbucks. Now when you go into Starbucks or I like Starbucks coffee as well, when I go, you will see three types of people there. One is like me who go and spend money and get a star coffee, and then there is a second type of people who are working there, employees, employees working on minimum wage, and that's a second type of people helping to run this coffee business, Starbucks in other countries. It could whatever coffee business is there, you can think about that, and then there is a third type of people who are investing in Starbucks shop or business or buying shares of Starbucks in the stock market. So I, as a coffee buyer, goes and pays money, and then employees of the Starbucks are there again on minimum wages. These are basically the consumer types, right? However, someone who buys a Starbucks share in the stock market or own part of Starbucks shop, what happens every time I put money into it and all the employees working there, he makes money or she makes money out of that because that's mean the business grows, measures go on, and that is the type of person has the investor mindset. Starbucks coffee these days costs easily if you are taking any coffee and maybe muffin, it's it's gonna easily cost you 10 pounds or$10 easily, and anyone working there makes between 10 and 15 pounds or dollars an hour or barristers, and every time we are paying, we are putting pocket into who owns the Starbucks or owns the shares of Starbucks. So if, for example, Dr Ash, you are owning the shares of Starbucks or our listener, that means every time someone buys a coffee, it puts some money into their pocket. So consumer to investor. So it's a it's a product there, so you can still enjoy a product. So how in investor thinks how consumer thinks is okay, I need a coffee like me in my old days. I need a coffee and muffin, and you are rushing through your morning routine and you buy a coffee and you are easily spent 10 quid a day or a few times a week. Whereas investor is thinking, I can maybe buy a good quality coffee and I'm gonna plan my time a little bit better and make coffee at home, and that's gonna cost me 3-4 pounds. A better tasting coffee, better tasting milk in it, and you are enjoying the process. Whereas you are putting that five pound, let's say five pound costs you to make coffee at home, five pounds into buying Starbucks here. Because as the value of Starbucks goes in over time, the part of business, because even you are investing five pounds, ten pounds, you are becoming a business partner with Starbucks. So, investor always think that way, okay. how I can invest this much money and it's gonna compound over time, which will mean at some point you can buy a free Starbucks coffee from all your investment in five, ten years' time, and after that, coffee is free for your life because then rather than you working for money, your money is working for you. Right? So that's an is easy example between a consumer mindset and investor mindset.

So I know this is a journey, this is a journey from breaking the old beliefs, old way of thinking, having a consumer mindset to becoming an investor mindset. Are there any books you can recommend which tell the tell the more detailed tools, or have you covered this in your book about to becoming an investor, or are there different financial tools, or people have to find professionals in this area who can help people to understand this better?

Yes, excellent question. So, first I would say have a think about if someone is young and they wanted to learn to drive a car, the way to do it, they need to learn how to drive past a theory test, past the physical exam as well, right? And they will go to someone, instructor, to tell them how to take that car and drive it safely on road, which ensures that they are able to enjoy this facility in their life also safely and making their life safe, other people's life safe as well. So, and once they pass the exam, the instructor job is done. He was there to tell you what to do, what not to do on the road. Same is with our health. Whenever we have a health issue, we just don't go to the internet and find what to do. Yes, in general condition, it's fine, but if there is a health condition, we have to go to a qualified doctor like you, Dr Ash, or others to find out what's going wrong. And we trust their opinion because they have spent their life learning about it, and whatever they guide us is probably the best way to deal with that health problem, right? So, same way is when we come down to personal finance management. there are many good books available. what I would suggest is the both things, as you mentioned, are important. Investing in your education, but working with the professional as well, especially when you are not sure and you are starting a journey. So better to work. I work with a lot of professionals to make sure I am getting the most beneficial advice, which pays off in long term. And yes, if anyone fancy my book, if it is visible, I will put the I will put the link.

I will put the link to the book Rethink Money Reclaim Your Life here, if you don't mind. And the listeners can learn more about Mr. Tamur Malik and get some excellent financial education. I know we are coming to the end of the talk. There are a lot of things which I would love to cover. Possibly we will do the second episode, but if you were to share, if you were to share the entire gist of this journey in the few top lessons, Tamur, what would you say to the listeners?

Yeah, excellent question. The wisdom of living a good financial financially prosperous life is very same that has been adopted and practiced thousands of years. So, what are the principles? Your life should be based on your needs, not your wants, right? So cover your needs first. Whatever we earn, I have I have worked with many people who are earning 12,000 pounds a year and living a wonderful life. And I have equally worked with the people who earn a lot, but just because the that piece is missing, the financial management piece is missing, they feel that it's it's it's it's required more for that. So the number one tip is focus on whatever your earning levels are, spend less than that. Whatever you can do, you can start with 0% or 1%, so only focus on spending 99% of your income or 95% or 90%. gradually you can increase it. So, this is the way to get rich in life is spend less than you earn. I don't mean to become a frugal, but this is really how you get the first step. Once you start saving, very important thing is which is a secret to becoming prosperous in life and rich, is to automate. Automate this step. So you can have your three buckets one is your needs bucket, which is all your expenses, your housing and transportation, food, family costs, schooling. Everything comes in one bucket. Second bucket is your emergency cost, which could be car breaking down, you need your heating system breaks down or anything like that. And the third is your future, future self bucket, which is your investment. So spend less than you earn, then have these three buckets automated. It's very easy these days to have one bank account. because if I ask, can you s can anyone save 20-25% of their income? Many people will say it's not possible. How can I save? I'm already struggling. But if you think for a second, in UK and many countries, anyone employed, they are all the government is already taking 20, 30, 40 percent of their income before the money comes into someone's account. So we need to carry the same discipline for ours. We have to tax ourselves for our future. Right? So that's a number two is automated, and thirdly, very, very simple. Learn about investing rather than working or time is equal to money, by investing you make money is equal to more money. So by investing, historically, if someone puts money into the stock market, for example, it grows by eight to ten percent over a year. So any money that you have added into seven, eight years, it gets double. That's a historic performance. I'm not giving a financial advice here, I'm just sharing the perspective here. So these are really the three fundamentals to remember. And that will put you put anyone's life on the right track. So spend less than you earn, automate your saving and investing, and thirdly, invest in your future, and that basically is going to be your model for creating prosperity, whichever level you are at the moment, and you will be amazed where you are within a one to three years time. And finally, never stop learning and invest in your financial education. if you are in a different country, the my book is available in through Amazon in many countries, but if not, like Rich Dad, Poor Dad is a very good book to read about on financial education, and then depending on your appetite, whatever subject, but I have tried to cover a mindset part that is required to shift your beliefs to acquire success in life, and then the five pillars of building wealth debts, taxes, property, stock market, and pensions. So if you read any book or my book within a lunch hour or in an evening, within a week, you can start seeing that it's gonna help you to rethink about money.

Well, thank you so much, Taymun. Really enjoyed the conversation with you. I fully agree with you that following these steps has a very compounding effect, and within one to three years, somebody who's doing it is able to see the visible difference in their lives. before we go, I would like to ask you if you don't mind. I can share your website and where the listeners can reach you.

Yeah, absolutely. and LinkedIn as well, if they want to connect over LinkedIn.

Yes, and it's it's been a real joy to be a real joy to have this very enriching conversation with you, which really gives amazing and insights about how small changes, how small change of direction will create a life of not only financial freedom, but of peace, of time, and of real joy, rather than chasing after consumer being stressed about consumer debts and financial pressures, a completely different life. Thank you for sharing such remarkable wisdom, and it's really a joy to have you on the Transforming Stress podcast, Taboo.

Ash, thank you for having me. It is my pleasure. and it was a very enjoyable conversation with you. very, very insightful, and always I enjoy conversing with you because you are a medical expert and transforming life through transforming stress. So I hope if I can. My goal was if I can help one person in your audience to think differently about money and financial stress. my job is well done here. So thank you. Thank you so much, David. Thank you. Take care. Bye.

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